How to talk about pay without ‘getting the ick’

Angela Meyer, Hi Money!

1. Get clear on the market—because guessing is expensive

One of the most reliable ways to be underpaid is to have no idea what everyone else is earning.

I’ve spoken to women who assumed they were “about right”, only to discover - usually by accident - that someone doing a very similar role was earning significantly more.

Not slightly more. Significantly more.

For example, I recently interviewed Dame Judy MacGregor for a podcast I’m working on about pay equity.

In 2003, she was appointed Equal Employment Opportunities Commissioner. Shortly after starting, she received a call from her former colleague, Joris de Bres, who at the time was Race Relations Commissioner. He congratulated her and, in passing, mentioned what he was being paid, adding that compared to his own history, it was “quite well paid”.

When Dame Judy received her first remuneration, she was surprised. It was lower than expected. More pointedly, she realised that someone with fewer statutory responsibilities than her was being paid more for a comparable public service role.

So she did something about it. She went to the Remuneration Authority and argued for equal pay.

Yes - the Equal Employment Opportunities Commissioner had to advocate for equal pay in her own job.

There is a particular irony in that. The person responsible for overseeing fairness in employment had to personally negotiate for it within the very system she was tasked with improving. It is a useful reminder that even when roles exist to uphold equity, the system itself does not automatically deliver it. Someone still has to challenge it, even from inside.

So ask around. Compare notes. Use whatever data you can find to get an honest sense of the pay range. Build your ask based on information.

2. Treat negotiation as part of the job

A lot of women worry about how they’ll be perceived if they negotiate. Even our Minister for Women, Nicola Grigg, said she had never asked for a pay rise. In a recent speech about measuring gender pay gaps, she said she was always “just grateful to have a job”.

If you’re a woman who has questioned how much you’re being paid, chances are you’ve heard some version of: don’t rock the boat, you’re being “too much”, or, less politely, just be grateful and get on with it.

Meanwhile, many men treat negotiation as a standard administrative step.

I once had a woman tell me she didn’t negotiate her offer because she “didn’t want to start off on the wrong foot”. Six months later, she was doing more than the role required, on the same salary, and definitely on the wrong foot.

Negotiation is not a personality test. It’s a normal part of how pay is set.

Keep it simple:

• This is the role

• This is the market

• This is what I’m asking for

If it’s helpful, channel Cindy Gallop, an entrepreneur whose advice to women when negotiating pay is to ask for the highest amount you can say out loud without laughing.

3. Stop assuming your work is obvious—because it often isn’t

There is a persistent myth that good work speaks for itself.

I’ve seen women hold entire teams together, deliver major pieces of work, and be described at review time as “reliable” or “supportive”—which is lovely, but rarely comes with a meaningful pay increase.

So keep track:

• What did you actually do?

• What changed because of you?

• Where did you add value?

Turn it into an email or PDF every week or fortnight and send it to your manager. Because if you don’t make it visible, someone else’s work will be. Plus, you’ll have a record of your value when it comes time for your end-of-year review.

4. Look beyond salary—because the trade-offs add up

Pay is not just the number on your contract.

Women are often offered - or opt into - flexibility, which can be genuinely valuable. But it can also come with a financial trade-off that isn’t always acknowledged.

It often means lower salary and slower career progression, which contributes to smaller retirement savings and less money over time.

Sometimes that trade-off is absolutely the right decision. But it should be conscious, not something that just…happens.

“You can leave early on Fridays” is not a substitute for being paid fairly.

5. Talk about pay—even if it gives you the ‘ick’

Women have been very effectively trained not to talk about money. In fact, many employers are counting on - and profiting from - women’s silence.

In our Hi Money research Rich in Context, only 36% of women felt comfortable talking with friends about money, and only 16% said they talk about money with work colleagues.

Women are extraordinary at sharing information. So let’s use that superpower. Let’s light up the group chat with conversations about pay bands, KiwiSaver contributions, negotiation tactics, childcare costs, and side hustles. Every time women talk about money, we loosen the patriarchy’s grip and shift the culture. We help get more money into the hands of more women.

Some of the most useful salary insights come from exactly those conversations.

I’ve seen women realise, in real time, that what they thought was generous was actually… not.

So where you can, talk about it.

6. Push for better systems—because you can’t negotiate your way out of everything

At some point, we have to acknowledge that individual negotiation has its limits.

You can be informed, prepared, and articulate, but you are still operating within a system that hasn’t been designed for women’s lives.

That’s why structural changes matter:

• transparent pay bands

• clear criteria for progression

• regular pay reviews

• mandatory pay gap reporting

These are not radical ideas. They are what fairness looks like when it’s built in, not negotiated one conversation at a time.

While not every woman is in a position to change the system, many are in a position to question it, influence it, or expect better from it. If you can, lend your voice to these causes. Support the women who are leading the charge in these spaces.

The bottom line

There are practical things women can do to improve their pay. But I want to be careful not to turn this into yet another story about women needing to optimise themselves. Because the issue has never been a lack of capability, or even a lack of effort.

The fact is that women are making financial decisions within a context that feels reasonable, possible, and safe.

So yes - ask for more, know the market, and have the conversation.

But if it feels harder than it should, that’s not just you.

That’s the system, sister. And it’s worth naming. The more we understand that, the better equipped we are—not just to navigate the system, but to change it.

Angela Meyer is the co-founder of Hi Money and Project Gender and works as a gender equity specialist within the finance sector. Money, Money, Money – how to reset your money mindset and find financial freedom – every woman’s guide by Rachel Davies and Angela Meyer is available now.